Future Christian

The Role of Music Leaders in Shaping the Future of the Church— A Conversation with Christopher Dawes

In this episode, Martha Tatarnic welcomes, Christopher Dawes, a veteran worship leader and musician in Canada.  Chris discusses the challenges and pressures faced by church musicians and the unique role they play in worship. The conversation also explores the individuality and isolation experienced by church musicians and the need for better relationships between musicians and ministers. The conversation delves into the role of music in churches, the challenges faced by church musicians, and the significance of the Summer Institute of Church Music. It explores the power and pastoral potential of music, the overvaluation and undervaluation of music in churches, and the impact of music on the future of Christianity. 

Christopher Dawes is a Toronto-based performer, conductor and consultant.  A three-decade fixture of the Toronto music community and frequent collaborator with many of its top institutions, he currently serves as Organist and Director of Music to Rosedale Presbyterian Church, and Artistic Director of the 18-voice a capella Marion Singers of Greater Toronto.  For two decades he has served as Collaborative Pianist and Coach to the graduate and undergraduate instrumental and choral conducting programs of the Faculty of Music, University of Toronto, and as a Director of Canada’s Summer Institute of Church Music.  Since 2018 he has also chaired the Executive of the Southern Ontario Chapter (SOCHS) of the Hymn Society of the US and Canada.  Chris’s graduate work in the area of Music Criticism and musical genre has led to occasional blogging and podcasting under the banner “Ideas About Music,” speaking at conferences, and eventually founding the Celtic-crossover band Chroí in 2013.

Web - http://ideasaboutmusic.ca, and on Facebook.

For more than 50 years, the Summer Institute of Church Music (SICM) has been helping church music to flourish by hosting a week-long transformative professional development program in July at Trafalgar Castle School in Whitby ON. Church musicians, worship leaders, clergy and choristers study under the direction of world class faculty, and participate in daily worship, workshops, and discussions of current issues facing churches and their music.  Students of all skill levels and denominations are welcomed.  

Recently re-located to All Saints' Anglican Church in Whitby, in 2024 SICM is debuting a 3-day, 12-hour program running in-person and online from 12pm-4pm Eastern Time, and will also feature the Final Round of the 26th biennial Osborne Organ Competition.  It remains the only program of its kind in Canada.

Web - http://sicm.ca, and on Facebook.

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

 

Supporting Sponsors:

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

 

Theology Beer Camp

https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Danny Burton - Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

 

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Why Podcast? What the podcast space offers the life of the church

In this joint podcast episode with Vicars' Crossing and Future Christian, Kevin, Rob and Martha talk about why as busy pastors leading churches they carve out time to be part of hosting podcasts. What are the conversations that the church needs to be having? What has been difficult for the church to talk about? What do we see as the value of making time and space for conversations with different voices from a variety of perspectives figuring our leadership in our churches today? What do we hope to offer the church on Vicars' Crossing and Future Christian, and what have we been learning in the process? Vicars' Crossing is a theological and church leadership podcast cohosted by Anglican priests Kevin George and Rob Henderson. 

Rob Henderson currently serves as rector of Holy Trinity St. Stephen’s Memorial Anglican Church in Ontario.  His previous parishes have been in the town of Essex and the city of Windsor. Before his ordination in 2008, Rob worked in radio broadcasting in Chatham and Leamington. He has been co-hosting the Vicars Crossing podcast with his friend and colleague Kevin George since 2019. Rob is married to wife Margie and has 2 boys.  

Kevin George was ordained in 1997 in the diocese of Eastern Newfoundland and Labrador, and has been a priest in the diocese of Huron since 1998. Kevin has served in the Parish of Labrador West, NL; St Marks by-the-Lake Tecumseh, ON; and is currently the Rector of St Aidan’s Church London, ON. Kevin earned a Bachelor in Education degree from Memorial University of Newfoundland, a Master of Divinity Degree from Huron University, and a Doctorate in Ministry from McCormick Theological Seminary. His thesis research was focused on faithful baptismal response in interfaith settings. Kevin is married to Catherinanne, who is the Director of Campus Ministry at Brescia University, and a chaplain in the Royal Canadian Naval Reserve. Kevin is a loyal Habs fan, prays for the return of Les Expos, and has learned what suffering looks like from being introduced to the Detroit Lions by Rob! Kevin is an avid reader, loves being involved in the community, and enjoys an appropriate adult beverage with friends. Fun fact: In 2019 Kevin preached for 55 Hours without sleep.

 

The Vicars' Crossing Podcast

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-vicars-crossing/id1439360909

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

 

Supporting Sponsors:

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

 

Theology Beer Camp

https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Danny Burton - Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

 

 

Terri Hord Owens on building a connected Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)

Rev. Teresa Hord Owens, General Minister and President of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) shares about the Covenant Project, which aims to increase participation and decision-making in the church, the Church Narrative Project, which focuses on changing the narrative of the church to be more inclusive and anti-racist, and the Proclamation Project, which equips clergy with preaching resources. She also talks about the importance of data gathering and analysis in understanding the state of the denomination. Hord Owens also highlights the importance of theological diversity, staying together at the table, and the need for moral and theological grounding in political engagement. Finally, she emphasizes the role of imagination, the importance of spiritual practice and Bible study, and why we need a more connected church that leverages its resources to do good in the world.

Rev. Teresa “Terri” Hord Owens is the General Minister and President of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in the United States and Canada. She is the first person of color and second woman to lead the denomination, and the first woman of African descent to lead a mainline denomination. Elected in 2017, Rev. Hord Owens was re-elected to a second term as General Minister and President in 2023. Her ministry actively reflects the Disciples’ priority of being an anti-racist church, being a movement for wholeness, welcoming all to the Lord’s table as God has welcomed us. Her exhortation to the church is “Let’s be the church we say we are. It is in being who we say we are that we actively bear witness to God’s limitless love for all.” Rev. Hord Owens earned her bachelor’s degree from Harvard University and her MDiv from the University of Chicago Divinity School, where she subsequently served as Dean of Students for 12 years. Rev. Hord Owens’ resume includes more than 20 years of leadership in corporate America leading diverse teams in data management. She serves on the National Council of Churches as the Treasurer of the Governing Board and is a member of the World Council of Churches Central Committee.

 

Relevant Links

http://disciples.org/     

https://disciples.org/ogmp/

David Anderson Hooker on the power of narrative

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

 

Supporting Sponsors:

I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer

Danny Burton - Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

 

 

Pastoral Health, Leading Change, and Building Connection: Martha & Loren highlight season 15

In this episode, Loren and Martha review the highlights of the season and discuss three broad themes: pastoral health, individualization versus connection, and leading change. They play clips from interviews with Kinsie Tate, Jonathan Foster, Ted Smith, Tessa Pinkstaff, Doug Powe, Scott Thumma and more to explore these themes. They discuss the challenges clergy face in dealing with their own issues while ministering to others, the need for support and community, and the tension between individualism and connection in the church. They also touch on the impact of live streaming and online ministry on the church community. The conversation explores the themes of consumerism, leading change, and the Messiah complex in church leadership. It emphasizes the need to resist the temptation to view churches as products and pastors as content creators. The dangers of quick fixes and the importance of discernment and listening are discussed. The conversation also touches on the interconnectedness of different topics in Christian leadership and teases upcoming conversations on the importance of the small and local in the church, flourishing mainline churches, clergy burnout and wellness, and more.

Episodes Highlighted:

How to Lead Faithful Innovation

New Models of Clergy Credentialing

Ted Smith

Doug Powe

Restore-clergy/Kinsie Tate

Jay Kim

Scott Thumma

Justin Anthony

 

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

 

Supporting Sponsors:

I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer

Danny Burton - Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

 

Brian McLaren on Leading and Living after Doom

With the continued decline of churches and denominations, many pastors and church leaders are facing a future filled with doom. In this conversation, Brian McLaren discusses his new book Life After Doom and how the four possible scenarios for the future of our world mirror the reality of institutional church: collapse avoidance, collapse rebirth, collapse survival, and collapse extinction. McLaren emphasizes the need for pastoral care and support in the face of these challenges and encourages individuals to show up for what they love. He also suggests reimagining the Christian faith as a series of movements rather than institutions. McLaren emphasizes the importance of small groups of people coming together to live simpler and more meaningful lives, focusing on conversation and enjoying the beauty of nature.

Brian D. McLaren is an author, speaker, activist, and public theologian. A former college English teacher and pastor, he is a passionate advocate for “a new kind of Christianity” – just, generous, and working with people of all faiths for the common good. He is a core faculty member and Dean of Faculty for the Center for Action and Contemplation. and a podcaster with Learning How to See. He is also an Auburn Senior Fellow and is a co-host of Southern Lights. His newest books are  Faith After Doubt (January 2021), Do I Stay Christian? (May 2022), and Life After Doom: Wisdom and Courage for a World Falling Apart, (May 2024). Born in 1956, he graduated from University of Maryland with degrees in English (BA, 1978, and MA, 1981). His academic interests included Medieval drama, Romantic poets, modern philosophical literature, and the novels of Dr. Walker Percy. In 2004, he was awarded a Doctor of Divinity Degree (honoris causa) from Carey Theological Seminary in Vancouver, BC, Canada, and in 2010, he received a second honorary doctorate from Virginia Theological Seminary (Episcopal).

Past Episodes with Brian:

https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/brian-mclaren-on-faith-after-doubt/

https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/do-i-stay-a-christian-with-brian-mclaren/

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

 

Supporting Sponsors:

I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer

Danny Burton - Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

 

How to Lead Faithful Innovation in your church

In this conversation, Tessa Pinkstaff and Dwight Zscheile discuss their book, Leading Faithful Innovation. They define faithful innovation as the adoption of new or ancient practices that help the church connect more deeply with God, each other, and their neighbors. They emphasize the need for leaders to create an environment where the Holy Spirit can lead and for the church to embrace failure as a learning opportunity. They also discuss the importance of cultivating a culture of listening, acting, and sharing. The guests discuss the need for churches to adapt and change in order to connect with people in today's culture. They emphasize the importance of empowering laypeople and creating a culture of deep listening and discernment. They also address the challenges of consensus and the potential for political and cultural tribalism to overshadow the gospel. 

Tessa Pinkstaff is the founder of Practices for Life, a ministry that invites people to explore Christian practices as a way to experience God’s presence. She currently leads the weekly Dwelling in the Word online gathering and serves as a project consultant for Luther Seminary’s Faith+Lead. Tessa is a co-author of Leading Faithful Innovation: Following God into a Hopeful Future. She has a Master of Arts in Ministry from Bethel Seminary and is in the process of becoming certified as a spiritual director. 

Dwight Zscheile is vice president of innovation and professor of congregational mission and leadership at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota. He is also a co-author of Leading Faithful Innovation, and has authored several other books. A graduate of Stanford University, Yale University, and Luther Seminary, he is an ordained Episcopal priest and has served congregations in Minnesota, Virginia and Connecticut. Dwight’s experience growing up in a secular home in California has shaped his commitment to helping the church cultivate Christian community with neighbors in today’s changing world.

Past Episode with Dwight: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/dwight-zscheile-and-the-future-of-mainline-churches/

URL for the book on faithlead.org:
https://faithlead.org/topics/faithful-innovation/

URL for the workbook:
faithlead.org/ebooks/faithful-innovation-leader-companion

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

 

Supporting Sponsors:

I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer

Danny Burton - Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

New models of clergy credentialing: Jonathan Foster talks about the Open Table Network

With the breakdown of institutions and denominations, faltering also are the credentialing methods  for pastors and clergy. In this conversation, Jonathan Foster joins the show to talk about Open Table Network, a clergy network that provides credentialing and support for pastors, chaplains, and counselors who have been excluded or marginalized by their faith traditions. With culture moving away from "big tent" institutions to affinity groups, Foster acknowledges the dangers of such but emphasizes the importance of local missional communities and empowering individuals rather than building centralized institutions. He also discusses the trend of denominations splintering and sees the value in smaller, more localized groups. The conversation explores the complexities of ministry credentialing and the challenges faced by spiritual leaders in the current age. It also delves into the theme of grief and the experiences of those who have transitioned out of traditional denominations. 

Jonathan is the partner of one, father of three, author, podcaster, lowercase t-theologian with some degrees, founder of lovehaiti.org, and a lover of mountains (oh, and colorado school of mines) and in general, a solvem probler extraordinaire. Find out more at jonathanfosteronline.com

 

Previous Episode with Jonathan:

https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/jonathan-foster-on-the-path-of-reconstruction/

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

 

Supporting Sponsors:

I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer

Danny Burton - Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Nichole Torbitzky talks campus ministry and what the next generation needs from church.

University Chaplain and Professor Nichole Torbitzsky joins the show to talk about her work with college students, how they are  engaging and identifying with Christianity, and what are the biggest "stumblingblocks" for students as they consider faith. She also discusses as Open and Relational / Process theology, the importance of community and spiritual connection for young adults, and the challenges faced by college students in finding their identity and place in the church. Torbitzsky believes many young adults feel excluded or unwelcome in traditional church settings and therefore churches need to be more accepting and loving towards all individuals, including those who identify as LGBTQIA+. If churches are going to continue to exist, they will need to connect with the next generation.

Nichole Torbitzky is Associate Professor of Religion and University Chaplain at Lindenwood University in St. Charles, MO.  Her current research investigates Whiteheadian notions related to Christian atonement theory. She serves as the editor for the Center for Process and Faith's Lectionary Commentary series.  She also serves as editor for Lindenwood University's student research journal, the Confluence.

Website: https://www.lindenwood.edu/arts-and-humanities/human-culture-and-society/philosophy-and-religion-ba/faculty/

Instagram: Nichole Torbitzky

Twitter: @ntorbitzky

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

 

Supporting Sponsors:

I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer

Danny Burton - Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Wounded Pastors: Carol Howard talks about the challenges clergy face

Across American Christianity, there is a shortage of clergy, and this is exacerbated by financial struggles, housing issues, and the emotional toll of being a pastor. In this episode, Carol Howard joins the show to talk about challenges and trends in clergy health. She also explored the impact of these trends on younger clergy and the need for the church to invest in clergy support. Howard also shares from her book Wounded Pastors, which explores the concept of Family Systems Theory and its application in helping pastors and clergy navigate challenges and dynamics within their congregations. The conversation also touches on the topics of forgiveness, rewriting personal stories, and the potential for post-traumatic growth in the church. 

Rev. Carol Howard (@CarolHoward) is the award-winning author of several books, including Wounded Pastors: Navigating Burnout, Finding Healing and Discerning the Future of your Ministry (Westminster John Knox) and Healing Spiritual Wounds: Reconnecting with a Loving God after Experiencing a Hurtful Church (HarperOne). Carol is a frequent contributor to books, websites, magazines, and journals. She was a regular columnist at the Christian Century where her blog was hosted. She’s a Presbyterian (USA) minister in a village church outside of New York City.

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

 

Supporting Sponsors:

I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer

Danny Burton - Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

 

Ted Smith talks about the Past, Present, and End(?) of Theological Education

Its no secret that the church as an institution in America is undergoing great change, and with it the role and function of clergy. In this episode, Ted Smith joins the show to talk about the history of formal theological education in the United States, the transition from the standing order to voluntary associations as the primary sociological gathering model, the professionalization of ministry, and the emergence of denominations as we know them. He also talks about the downsides of the professionalization such as clergy being lonely, isolated, and out of touch. Ted also speaks about growing trends such as Christian leaders being formed outside of professional education, smaller and more homogenous denominations, and Mega-churches and micro-churches.

Ted Smith is Charles Howard Candler Professor of Divinity and Associate Dean of Faculty at Emory University’s Candler School of Theology. He holds degrees from Duke University, Oxford University, Princeton Theological Seminary, and Emory University. He is the author of three books: The New Measures, Weird John Brown, and, most recently, The End of Theological Education, which reviewers have hailed as a generational landmark in reflection on theological education. He has edited books on sexuality and ordination, contemporary issues in preaching, and economic inequality. Smith also serves as director of Theological Education between the Times and the editor of the series of books that have grown out of that project. Ordained to ministry in the Presbyterian Church (USA), Smith served as pastor to two congregations in upstate New York prior to beginning his doctoral studies.

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

 

Supporting Sponsors:

I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'

Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer

Danny Burton - Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer