Future Christian

Redefining Leadership: Andrew Draper on Disability, Inclusion, and the Power of Community

What does it mean to lead in weakness rather than strength? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Rev. Dr. Andrew Draper, co-author of Disabling Leadership: A Practical Theology for the Broken Body of Christ. Together, they explore how the church can redefine leadership away from power, charisma, and productivity toward humility, inclusion, and community-driven authority. Andrew shares insights from his work in disability theology, church leadership, and reconciliation, discussing how leadership must embrace human limitation and interdependence rather than seeking control or dominance. They also dive into the challenges of deconstruction and critical theory, why Christian nationalism and secular humanism are both flawed responses to uncertainty, and how churches can better align their practices with their values of inclusion.

Rev. Dr. Andrew T. Draper is the Executive Director of Winebrenner Theological Seminary in Findlay, OH. He is also teaching pastor at Urban Light Community Church in Muncie, IN. He has authored numerous books and articles on race, disability, and the church. Dr. Draper holds a PhD in theological ethics from the University of Aberdeen and an MDiv from Winebrenner Theological Seminary.

 

Relevant Links:

www.AndrewTDraper.com

www.UrbanLightMuncie.com

www.facebook.com/AndrewThomasDraper 

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

 

Church for Everyone: Why the Future Church must be Multi-Ethnic, Multi-Generational, & Mission-Driven

How can churches truly become spaces for everyone? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Dan Kreiss and Ephraim Smith, co-authors of Church for Everyone: Building a Multi-Inclusive Community for Emerging Generations. Together, they explore how churches can move beyond silos of race, class, and ideology to truly reflect the diverse body of Christ. Dan and Ephraim discuss the shift from attractional mega-church models to localized, neighborhood-based faith communities, the growing need for multi-ethnic and multi-generational churches, and why the church should lead the way in reconciliation rather than follow secular models of inclusion. They also examine the tension between church as an institution vs. church as a gathered community and how leaders can navigate these complexities while engaging younger generations.

 

Dan Kreiss (DMin, George Fox University) is the associate minister for mission and community outreach at Roswell Presbyterian Church in the greater Atlanta area. He was previously professor of youth ministry and dean of the School of Missions at King University in Bristol, Tennessee.

Efrem Smith (DMin, Fuller Theological Seminary) is the colead pastor of Midtown Church, a thriving multiethnic community in Sacramento, California. His books include Raising Up Young Heroes and The Post-Black and Post-White Church. Learn more about Efrem and read his blog at influentalglobal.com. Follow him on X: @efremsmith.

 

Episodes Referenced:

Walter Strickland: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-zmhss-174b7a6

Brian Davis: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-jd4vj-172854c

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Dustin Benac on Adaptability, Authority, and Future Church

How can churches navigate change and uncertainty with creativity and resilience? In this episode,  Dustin Benac shares insights from his research in the Pacific Northwest, where faith communities are experimenting with new organizational models in response to the decline of traditional church structures. Together, they explore themes of collaboration, authority, and innovation, discussing how faith communities can remain rooted in tradition while adapting to a rapidly shifting landscape. Dustin introduces the concept of "hubs"—new forms of church organization that connect congregations, nonprofits, and faith leaders in dynamic networks. He also reflects on how authority is shifting from institutional hierarchy to relational trust and local leadership, offering a hopeful vision for the future of faith.

Dustin D. Benac, ThD, is an educator, practical theologian and organizational strategist. He teaches at Baylor University’s George W. Truett Theological Seminary as the Co-Founding Director for the Program for the Future Church. He has supported and studied communities of faith who are navigating transition and uncertainty across North America. Prior to his appointment at Baylor, Dustin was a Postdoctoral Associate with Kate Bowler and the Everything Happens Project at Duke University. Dustin is the author or editor of multiple books and articles. His latest book, Adaptive Church: Collaboration and Community in a Changing World, explores what it takes for communities of faith to navigate organizational change. He is the co-editor of Crisis and Care: Meditations on Faith and Philanthropy and the Editor of Practical Theology, an international and interdisciplinary journal. His writing has been published by Faith & Leadership, Christianity Today, The World Council of Churches, Ecclesial Futures.

An accomplished speaker, teacher, and fundraiser, he has worked with congregations and researchers across Canada, the United Kingdom, New Zealand, and the United States. He is a graduate of Duke University, with Doctor of Theology (ThD) and Master of Divinity (MDiv) degrees, and Whitworth University. Dustin lives in Waco, TX with his wife, Casey, their three kids, and a lab, Lila. To join the conversation, go to dustindbenac.com or follow him on Twitter @dustindbenac.

 

Adaptive Church: https://www.baylorpress.com/9781481317085/adaptive-church/

Discount code is 17Fall24 for 20% off + free shipping

Program for the Future Church’s Impact Report: https://truettseminary.baylor.edu/sites/g/files/ecbvkj631/files/2025-01/PFFC%20Impact%20Report%20Final.pdf

 

X: https://x.com/dustindbenac?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dustindbenac/

Threads: https://www.threads.net/@dustindbenac

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dustin-benac-22069127/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dustin.benac/

Website: https://www.dustindbenac.com/

 

Episodes Referenced:

Ted Smith https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-w4nrb-15d747b

Scott Thumma https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-44b9y-154b15b

Justin Anthony: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-cjrug-1541ed0

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Worship and the Body: David Taylor on Why Physicality Matters in Worship

How does the way we use our bodies shape our faith? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with W. David O. Taylor, Associate Professor of Theology and Culture at Fuller Theological Seminary and author of A Body of Praise: Understanding the Role of Our Physical Bodies in Worship. David shares insights into the importance of physicality in worship, the role of space and posture, and how these practices can deeply shape spiritual formation. David discusses the impact of the pandemic on worship practices, the theological implications of our physical expressions, and the ways worship spaces and rituals influence how we encounter God. Loren and David also explore cultural attitudes toward the body, masculinity, and how we are called to use our bodies as instruments of care, connection, and worship.

David O. Taylor is Associate Professor of Theology and Culture at Fuller Theological Seminary and the author of several books, including Prayers for the Pilgrimage (IVP, 2024), A Body of Praise (Baker Academic, 2023), Open and Unafraid (Thomas Nelson/HarperCollins, 2020), Glimpses of the New Creation (Eerdmans, 2019), and The Theater of God’s Glory(Eerdmans, 2017). In addition to a range of scholarly and popular essays, he has also edited several books, including The Art of New Creation(IVP Academic, 2022), Contemporary Art and the Church (IVP Academic, 2017), and For the Beauty of the Church: Casting a Vision for the Arts (Baker Books, 2010).  He serves on the advisory board for Duke Initiatives in Theology and the Arts as well as IVP Academic’s series, “Studies in Theology and the Arts.” An ordained priest, he has lectured widely on the arts, from Thailand to South Africa. In 2016 he produced a short film on the psalms with Bono and Eugene Peterson. He lives in Austin, Texas, with his children and artist wife, Phaedra, with whom he has produced three sets of illustrated prayer cards (here, here, and here). He can be found online on Twitter: @wdavidotaylor; IG: @davidtaylor_theologian; and his personal website, www.wdavidotaylor.com.

 

Episodes Referenced:

J. Michael Jordan: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/worship-in-an-age-of-anxiety-with-j-michael-jordan/

Andrew Root: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/rooted/

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Professional Christian: Sarah Bereza on how to be fully yourself in public ministry

What does it mean to be a professional Christian? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes Dr. Sarah Bereza, a church musician, theologian, and author of Professional Christian: Being Fully Yourself in the Spotlight of Public Ministry. They discuss Sarah's journey from a fundamentalist Baptist upbringing to her current role as a progressive Christian and musician in mainline churches. The conversation explores the complexities of being a "professional Christian"—where your livelihood is tied to your faith—and the challenges of authenticity, power dynamics, and leadership in ministry. Sarah shares insights on navigating purity culture, the pressures of public ministry, and how leaders can balance personal integrity with professional responsibilities. They also delve into the power of music in worship and the importance of fostering community within and beyond church walls.

Sarah Bereza holds a PhD and a Certificate in Feminist Theory from Duke University and has focused her research on music and theology in American Christianity. She is the author of Professional Christian: Being Fully Yourself in the Spotlight of Public Ministry (Westminster John Knox Press: 2022). Sarah is a lifelong church musician and currently serves as the Director of Music at Grace United Methodist Church in St. Louis, MO. She shares resources including a newsletter at sarah-bereza.com. 

 

Relevant Links:

Sarah-bereza.com

https://sarahbereza.substack.com

https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/worship-in-an-age-of-anxiety-with-j-michael-jordan/

 

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Prayer, Politics, and the Witness of the Church in Divided Times: A Roundtable Discussion

What role should the church play in today’s polarized political landscape? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Martha Tatarnic hosts a roundtable with Loren Richmond Jr., Larry Lin, and Dennis Sanders to explore the intersection of faith and politics. Together, they tackle challenging questions about political engagement, the church’s responsibility to marginalized communities, and navigating conversations with those who hold differing views. Topics include the Christian response to polarization, the role of prayer and discernment in political dialogue, and how churches can foster spaces for meaningful connection across ideological divides. They also reflect on the dangers of disengagement, the power of narrative to inspire hope, and the church's unique opportunity to model Christ-like love in contentious times.

Larry Lin was born and raised in San Jose, California, and he has degrees from Cornell University and Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Larry has been a pastor for 10 years, and he currently serves as a pastor at Grace Life Church, a non-denominational church in the Baltimore area. Previously, Larry worked for a college ministry in the Washington, D.C. area, as well as for a non-profit called the One America Movement, equipping faith leaders with resources on toxic polarization. Larry enjoys writing about church and politics, doing deep dives on Wikipedia, and making music. Larry lives with his wife and two children in the Mount Washington neighborhood of Baltimore.

Dennis Sanders is a Michigan native, a lover of the Detroit Lions and Michigan State Spartans and an ordained minister in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). He has degrees from Michigan State University and Luther Seminary. Dennis is currently pastor at First Christian Church in St. Paul, Minnesota and the host of the Church and Main podcast.  He lives in Minneapolis with his husband Daniel.

 

Relevant Links:

https://churchandmain.org/: Church and Main Podcast

https://thestateoftheology.com/ - Resource mentioned in the episode 

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Peter Elliott on Navigating Ministry and Creativity in a Changing Church

What can musical theatre teach us about faith and leadership? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Martha Tatarnic sits down with the Very Reverend Peter Elliott, a retired Anglican priest, former dean of Christ Church Cathedral in Vancouver, and co-host of The Gospel of Musical Theatre. Dean Elliott shares his journey in ministry, offering insights on Christian leadership, the transformative role of music in worship, and adapting to the challenges of a declining institutional church. Highlights include Peter’s experiences with LGBTQ+ inclusion in the Anglican Church, his passion for coaching clergy, and his unique perspective on how musicals like Oklahoma! and My Fair Lady reveal gospel truths and social critiques.

Peter Elliott is a priest of the Anglican Church of Canada.  Hailing from the Niagara Region of southern Ontario, his ministry has included leadership within the Anglican communion for the full inclusion of LGBTQ people and strong advocacy for a spirituality that promotes social and environmental justice.  Over his 40+ years in ordained ministry Peter has served in senior positions internationally and nationally within the Anglican Church.  A long-time resident of Vancouver, British Columbia, Peter was Dean of Christ Church Cathedral (1994-2019) and currently is a coach and consultant in private practice.   He is a featured writer on arts and culture in the Anglican Journal-the national newspaper of the Anglican Church of Canada and has enjoyed working with the former Dean of Portland, Oregon, the Very Rev. Nathan LeRud as co-host of the podcast The Gospel and Musical Theatre.  Peter’s husband Thomas Roach is an artist working primarily in textiles.

Relevant Links:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Elliott_(Canadian_priest) - Peter has his own Wikipedia page!

https://www.echostories.com/peter-elliott-good-ancestors/

https://www.vancouverfoundation.ca/detail/peter-elliott/

https://gospelofmt.podbean.com - His podcast!

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Jesse Zink on Charting Realistic Hope for the Church’s Future.

What does it mean to be faithful and creative in a world shaped by crisis? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Martha Tatarnic welcomes the Reverend Dr. Jesse Zink, an Anglican priest, theologian, and author. Dr. Zink discusses his latest book, Faithful, Creative, Hopeful: 15 Theses for Christians in a Crisis-Shaped World, exploring how the church can navigate and respond to global and local crises with faith, creativity, and resilience. The conversation delves into themes of Christian formation, the impact of economic and social systems on faith communities, and the power of apocalyptic clarity to unveil and resist the dehumanizing forces at work in the world. Dr. Zink shares insights on finding hope amidst challenges, fostering intercultural relationships, and embracing the church’s practices—like the Eucharist—as acts of resistance and renewal.

 

The Rev. Dr. Jesse Zink is an Anglican priest and also serves as canon theologian in the Diocese of Montreal. Born in Vancouver and raised in the United States, Jesse has also served in ministry in South Africa and England before his arrival in Montreal. Since 2017 Jesse, has been Principal of Montreal Diocesan Theological College, or, as it is widely known, “Dio.” Dio is an ecumenical theological college serving the Anglican and United Churches of Canada and is affiliated with McGill University. His latest book, published in fall 2024, is Faithful, Creative, Hopeful: Fifteen Theses for Christians in a Crisis-Shaped World. He is the author of four other books about Christian theology, Christian mission, and Christianity in the non-western world, including Backpacking through the Anglican Communion (2014) and Christianity and Catastrophe in South Sudan: Civil War, Migration, and the Rise of Dinka Anglicanism (2018).

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Mike Cosper on the Dangers of Ideology in the Church

What happens when ideology takes over church leadership? In this episode, Martha Tatarnic welcomes Mike Cosper, creator of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill and director of podcasts at Christianity Today. Mike explores the dynamics of ideology within church leadership, particularly how ideological thinking can lead to disastrous decision-making. Together, they discuss the influence of secularism and the anxiety surrounding church decline, as well as the allure of charismatic leaders like Mark Driscoll. In a thought-provoking dialogue, they consider the role of populism, the importance of resisting the cult of personality in church leadership, and the practices of worship and storytelling as acts of resistance. Mike also reflects on the reception of his work within the evangelical world and the importance of truth-telling in journalism. He emphasizes the mysterious ways God shows up in broken places, even amidst the church's failings.

 

Mike Cosper has been creating music, radio shows, and podcasts for more than 20 years. He produced and hosted The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill podcast and is director of podcasts at Christianity Today. He now cohosts a weekly podcast called The Bulletin. Cosper also leads cohorts for church leaders and is the author of four books, including Recapturing the Wonder. He and his family live in Louisville, Kentucky.

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

From Pulpit to Platform: Alexander Lang’s Journey

What happens when a pastor trades the pulpit for a tech startup? In this episode, Martha welcomes back Alexander Lang, a former PCUSA pastor turned tech entrepreneur, to share his journey from church ministry to launching a business focused on fostering meaningful relationships. Alexander dives into his latest creative projects, including the Restorative Faith Podcast and his upcoming YouTube series, Kokoro, which draws inspiration from Mr. Rogers to address universal themes like trust, anxiety, and doubt, offering adults a space to feel seen, heard, and valued. Through the lens of Kokoro, he unpacks how theology and media intersect, blending a theology of love and acceptance with practical strategies for personal growth. Martha and Alexander also discuss the potential of platforms like YouTube and TikTok to transcend traditional church boundaries, highlighting how social media can transform modern faith communication and reach new audiences in powerful ways.

Alexander Lang is a former PCUSA pastor who worked in church ministry for 20 years. He has since left the church to pursue a technology business that is designed to help people form meaningful relationships. Alex’s interests include independent film, electronic music and deep conversation with people who question, doubt and want to dig into the most complex issues we face as humans. When he’s not working on books, podcasts or the Restorative Faith Movement, Alex enjoys spending time with his wife and two sons.

 

Previous Episodes with Alex Lang:

21st Century Spirituality: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/spirituality-for-the-21st-century-rationalist-a-conversation-with-alexander-lang/

The Most Viral Article on Clergy Burnout: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/alex-lang/

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant