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At the Future Christian Podcast, we talk to pastors, authors, and other faith leaders for helpful advice and practical wisdom to help you lead your church into the future.
Episodes
3 days ago
3 days ago
Can your church pay the bills and follow God’s call with integrity? In this episode, Loren talks with stewardship educator and sustainability strategist Grace Duddy Pomroy about how churches can embrace bold, faithful financial models without compromising their mission. Grace offers insights drawn from her national research and latest book on reimagining how churches fund ministry—from sliding-scale rentals to community-rooted partnerships.
Topics Explored:
- Why your mission must come before your money
- The spiritual practices that sustain long-term financial change
- How to rethink rent, real costs, and what generosity really looks like
- Why churches need to grieve the past to make room for the future
- A six-part “rocket ship” model for launching sustainable ideas
- The myth of quick fixes—and the value of faithful experimentation
Grace Duddy Pomroy is the Director of the Stewardship Leaders Program at Luther Seminary. She’s a lay, millennial stewardship leader, speaker, and financial educator based in Allyn, WA. She is the co-author of the stewardship book, Embracing Stewardship: How to Put Stewardship at the Heart of Your Congregation’s Life, as well as author of the free 2013 ELCA stewardship resource, “Stewards of God’s Love.” Her latest book, Funding Forward: A Pathway to More Sustainable Models for Ministry, was just released September 2024. Grace is also a consultant with Relèven, a charitable organization that lovingly preserves, restores, and repurposes under-utilized churches into community hubs and affordable housing.
Mentioned Resources:
📱 Follow https://www.instagram.com/gracepomroy/ on Instagram
📖 Book: https://www.fortresspress.com/store/product/9781506493336/Funding-Forward
🌐 Funding Forward: https://faithlead.org/funding-forward
🌐 Releven: https://releven.org/
🎧 Mark Elsdon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/eldson/
🎧 Mark Elsdon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/mark-elsdon-on-why-we-arent-broke/
🎧 Jessica Dominguez: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/jessica-dominguez-on-mobilizing-churches-for-affordable-housing/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
3 days ago
3 days ago
What if your church property wasn’t a burden—but a blessing to your neighbors? In this episode, Loren talks with John Cleghorn about the growing movement of churches reimagining their buildings and land to address the affordable housing crisis. Drawing from firsthand experience and national trends, John explores how faith communities can embrace a new missional identity rooted in service, hospitality, and justice. Whether you’re a pastor, denominational leader, or simply wondering what’s next for the American church, this conversation offers both challenge and hope.
This episode includes:
- How churches are transforming unused space into affordable housing
- The pastoral challenge of helping congregations grieve old models while embracing new vision
- Why engaging neighbors is essential before development
- The tension between mission and monetization
- What it means to be a church after Christendom—and why that might be good news
John Cleghorn became pastor of Caldwell Presbyterian in 2008 after 25 years in banking and journalism. He has served Caldwell as it rebounded from almost closing to become a vibrant, diverse, mission-driven congregation centered on the love and justice of Jesus Christ. His latest book, Building Belonging: The Church’s Call to Create Community and House Our Neighbors, springs from his congregation’s experience and his national research into the emerging movement of faith-based organizations building affordable housing on their property. Building Belonging blends theology and Bible study with case studies and lessons learned From the movement. A native of Atlanta, he has lived in Charlotte since 1986 and has served on a wide array of non-profit agency boards in the religious and human services fields at the local and national levels. He is currently a board member of WFAE. He is married to Kelly, a kindergarten teacher, and has two adult children. He holds a Doctorate in Ministry from Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, a Master of Divinity from Union Presbyterian Seminary and a Bachelor of Arts from Washington and Lee University. His first book, Resurrecting Church: Where Justice and Diversity Meet Radical Welcome and Healing Hope (Fortress Press), came out in 2020.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 Book: https://www.wjkbooks.com/Products/0664268501/building-belonging.aspx
🌐 Caldwell Presbyterian: https://www.caldwellpresby.org/
🎧 Mark Elsdon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/eldson/
🎧 Mark Elsdon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/mark-elsdon-on-why-we-arent-broke/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
Tuesday May 13, 2025
Tuesday May 13, 2025
What if burnout isn’t the end of your calling—but an invitation to reimagine it? In this episode, Loren talks with Dr. Arianna Molloy, author of Healthy Calling: From Toxic Burnout to Sustainable Work, about how our deepest exhaustion can reveal what matters most. Drawing from her own journey and years of research, Arianna offers insight for leaders, pastors, and anyone navigating seasons of vocational confusion, overwork, or transition. together, they explore how calling can be both sacred and slippery, why shame is often tied to burnout, and how to reclaim your purpose without clinging to a title.
This episode includes:
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The difference between a healthy calling and toxic burnout
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Why our job titles aren’t our true identity
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What to do when you feel vocationally lost
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How rest and reflection help realign our sense of purpose
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Tools for reframing shame and rediscovering joy in your work
Arianna Molloy (PhD, University of Denver) is associate professor of organizational communication at Biola University. Her research focuses on meaningful work, work as a calling, and the connection between humility and burnout in the workplace. She is an award-winning scholar and educator who has published in the International Journal of Business Communication, Communication Studies, and Christianity Today. Arianna is also a consultant for organizations, business professionals, and ministries. Arianna and her husband, Allen, have one son and enjoy running half marathons, traveling the world, and drinking good coffee.
Mentioned Resources:
📱 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arianna-molloy-ph-d-168969246/
🌐 Arianna's website: ariannamolloy.com.
🎧 Past episode: Pastoral Health Roundtable Episode
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
Tuesday May 06, 2025
Tuesday May 06, 2025
What happens when your most meaningful ministry happens through a smartphone screen? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes Rev. Bethany Peerbolte—a self-described “TikTok Pastor” and the founding leader of Our Tapestry, a fully digital church community. With over 280,000 followers online, Bethany creates content that helps people declutter harmful theology, reimagine faith, and reconnect with a God of radical love—especially in places she calls “theological deserts.” She shares how a few youth group questions during the pandemic launched her into full-time digital ministry, why she prefers “decluttering” over “deconstruction,” and how online spaces can offer real spiritual care and community. From spiritual practices to algorithms, from internet trolls to worship on Discord, Bethany reveals the joys and challenges of doing church in a platform-driven world.
Topics Covered:
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How TikTok launched a movement of digital pastoral care
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What “decluttering faith” looks like in practice
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The role of dreams, labyrinths, and curiosity in spiritual growth
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Navigating social media algorithms and resisting rage-bait
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The promise and peril of building sacred spaces online
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Why progressive Christians need to speak louder online
Rev. Bethany Peerbolte is the founding pastor of Our Tapestry. This community meets entirely in digital spaces and gathers to declutter faith from abusive theology. She also creates Christian content on TikTok seeking to meet younger generations where they scroll. The stories Rev. Bethany hears from her 286,000+ followers about how churches have treated them inspires her ministry. “The zip code someone lives in should not decide what kind of God they know. Everyone deserves access to the radical love of God.” You can follow @RevBethany on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube and learn more at OurTapestry.Online.
Mentioned Resources:
📱 Follow @RevBethany on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube
🌐 Learn more or join the community at rev-bethany.com
🎧 Past episode: Ted Smith:
🎧 Past episode: Elesha Coffman:
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
Tuesday Apr 29, 2025
Tuesday Apr 29, 2025
Is progressive Christianity losing its soul by abandoning church, worship, and leadership? In this episode, Loren talks with Pastor Clint Schneckloth to explore why faith communities, worship, and theological grounding still matter in progressive spaces. Clint pushes back against the tendency to dismiss church as irrelevant or harmful, offering a vision for how ethical leadership, communal worship, and rooted faith can empower justice work rather than distract from it. He also introduces place-sharing as a model for mission and evangelism, showing how churches can engage their neighbors without compromising progressive values—or their faith commitments.
In this episode, you'll hear:
- Why Clint wrote about Progressive Church instead of Progressive Christianity
- How worship fuels justice, rather than distracting from it
- The danger of abandoning theological foundations for the sake of inclusivity
- Reclaiming leadership: Ethical authority in progressive communities
- Place-sharing: A relational approach to mission and evangelism
Clint Schnekloth is pastor of Good Shepherd Lutheran Church in Fayetteville, Arkansas, a progressive church in the South. He is the founder of Canopy NWA (a refugee resettlement agency) and Queer Camp, and is the author of A Guidebook to Progressive Church. He blogs as Lutheran Confessions at Substack.
Mentioned Resources:
📚 A Guidebook to Progressive Church by Clint Schneckloth
✍️ Follow on Substack: Lutheran Confessions https://clintschnekloth.substack.com/
🌐 Good Shepherd Lutheran Church: https://www.goodshepherdnwa.org/staff/
🏳️🌈 Canopy NWA & Queer Camp: http://www.canopynwa.org/welcome
🍲 Mutual Aid Partner: Food Not Bombs https://foodnotbombs.net/new_site/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
Tuesday Apr 22, 2025
Tuesday Apr 22, 2025
In this episode of the Future Christian podcast, hosts Martha and Loren engage in a personal check-in, discussing Loren's vocational transitions and the challenges of navigating ministry outside traditional roles. They then delve into the current state of Canada-US relations, exploring the emotional and economic implications of a perceived trade war. The conversation highlights the cultural identity of Canadians and the growing sense of national pride amidst external pressures, emphasizing the importance of recognizing diverse forms of ministry and leadership in a changing landscape. In this conversation, Martha and Loren explore the role of progressive Christianity in addressing contemporary political issues, the importance of empathy and mercy in sermons, and the challenges of navigating political sensitivities within congregations. They discuss the significance of music in fostering community and healing, the need for courage in leadership, and the importance of finding common ground across political divides. The conversation concludes with personal reflections on coping strategies and a shared prayer for unity and guidance.
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
Tuesday Apr 15, 2025
Tuesday Apr 15, 2025
What does it mean to be the church in anxious, divided times? Recorded in connection with the 2025 Remind & Renew Conference at Phillips Seminary, Loren Richmond Jr. sits down with Rev. Dr. Susan Diamond to explore how local congregations can become spaces of healing, clarity, and radical welcome. Drawing from her work with moral injury, healing circles, and the Soul Repair After Moral Injury podcast (co-hosted with Dr. Rita Nakashima Brock), Susan shares how churches can recover the spiritual practices that root us in love, courage, and compassion. From forming faith through daily practices to fostering political and theological diversity under a shared mission, she offers a powerful testimony of what it means to be the church for this moment.
In this episode, you'll hear:
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What moral injury is and how it shows up in church, healthcare, and society
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How healing circles are transforming congregations from the inside out
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Why forming faith is essential before welcoming or serving others
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How to foster unity across political differences through mission clarity
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The role of spiritual direction and communal lament in healing
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A hopeful vision for the future of Christianity and leadership
Rev. Dr. Susan Ward Diamond is the Lead Pastor of Florence Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in Florence, Kentucky, where she has served since 2015. Susan received her Bachelor of Arts degree from Texas Christian University, a Master of Divinity degree from Brite Divinity School, and a Doctor of Ministry degree from United Theological Seminary in Dayton, Ohio. Dr. Diamond has invested herself in ministry and mission through local, regional and general expressions of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in the United States and Canada, throughout her 33 years of ordained ministry. She has served on the regional boards of the Florida and Alabama-Northwest Florida regions, directed numerous youth camps and conferences, and served as a keynote speaker of retreats and assemblies around the country. She has served her denomination as First Vice Moderator for the 2011-2013 biennium of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in the United States and Canada. During her sabbatical in 2021, Dr. Diamond and Dr. Rita Nakashima Brock collaborated on a pastoral study grant funded by the Louisville Institute entitled Moral Injury: A Catalyst for Reform. Following the study period, they have continued their work together to offer strategies to faith communities for providing support and healing for those suffering from moral distress and moral injury. They have recently launched the podcast Soul Repair: After Moral Injury. Susan and Rita are currently writing a book which they hope to publish soon.
Mentioned Resources:
🎙️ Rita Nakashima Brock's episode on Future Christian: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-vjamb-1871d36
🎙️ Soul Repair After Moral Injury Podcast (on all major platforms)
🌐 Florence Christian Church: florencechristian.org
📚 Coming Soon: A book on moral injury in the church (by Susan Diamond & Rita Nakashima Brock)
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
Tuesday Apr 08, 2025
Tuesday Apr 08, 2025
What if the church was never meant to be a waiting room for heaven—but a community that builds paradise now? Recorded live at Phillips Seminary during the 2025 Remind & Renew Conference, Loren Richmond Jr. sits down with Dr. Rita Nakashima Brock to reflect on the decline of religious institutions, the collapse of reliable media, and how early Christian communities cultivated paradise on earth—not just in theory, but through shared meals, practices, and mutual care. Drawing on her groundbreaking book Saving Paradise, Brock calls for a return to rituals that ground us in community, memory, and moral accountability.
In this episode, you'll hear about:
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The origins and impact of moral injury in war and church settings
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Why wisdom cannot grow in isolation—and how loneliness undermines it
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The role of ritual in forming resilient, embodied communities of faith
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Early Christianity’s focus on paradise in the here and now
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What Protestantism lost when it rejected communal, repetitive ritual
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A powerful critique of institutional silence, spiritual abuse, and the theology of “waiting for heaven”
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How the Eucharist once fed thousands—and why we need that vision again
Rita Nakashima Brock, Ph.D., has been Senior Vice President for Moral Injury Recovery Programs at Volunteers of America since 2017. An award-winning author, she is co-author of Saving Paradise: How Christianity Traded Love of This World for Crucifixion and Empire (2008). She held the Endowed Chair in the Humanities at Hamline University 1990-1997, then became Director of the Fellowship Program at the Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Study at Harvard University. From 2001-2002 she was a fellow at the Center for Values in Public Life at Harvard Divinity School. She co-founded the Soul Repair Center at Brite Divinity School in 2012 and directed it until 2017.
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
Tuesday Apr 01, 2025
Tuesday Apr 01, 2025
What if bivocational ministry isn’t a compromise—but a key to the church’s future? Kris Bentley joins Loren Richmond Jr. to explore the evolving landscape of bivocational ministry in today’s church. Drawing on insights from her book Bivocational Ministry: Field Notes for Congregations and Ministers, Kris shares stories from over a decade of research and interviews with pastors and churches engaged in bivocational models. They unpack misconceptions around part-time and bivocational leadership, the surprising benefits of realigned congregational relationships, and how small churches can thrive with the resources they already have. Kris also offers thoughtful guidance for pastors navigating dual roles, denominations rethinking support structures, and seminaries designing education for a changing ministry future.
In this episode, you'll learn:
- Why bivocational ministry is more than a financial necessity—and may be the future of pastoral leadership
- How redefining expectations can empower lay leaders and revitalize small congregations
- The difference between part-time, bivocational, and multivocational ministry models
- Practical tools for pastors and churches navigating role clarity and boundary-setting
- How seminaries and denominations can better support pastors in flexible ministry pathways
Rev. Dr. Kristen Bentley is an ordained minister with the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). She has served in congregational ministry in the central Kentucky area for more than twenty years, sometimes in the role of a bivocational pastor. Prior to attending seminary, she worked in higher education administration, serving at both Midway College (now Midway University) and the University of Kentucky. Since 2014 Kris has been working at Lexington Theological Seminary (LTS), beginning when LTS was awarded a grant by Lilly Endowment Inc. as part of its Economic Challenges Facing Future Ministers (ECFFM). She was hired to direct the grant project and as part of that work, Kris initiated research at LTS regarding bivocational ministry. The research concerning bivocational ministry has been supported at LTS through grants from Lilly Endowment Inc., including both Lilly’s ECFFM Initiative and later the Thriving in Ministry Initiative. Currently, Kris also is serving as an interim minister of a Disciples of Christ congregation in Kentucky. Kris is an alum of Lexington Theological Seminary, holding a D. Min. (2020) and M.Div. degree (1997) from LTS, as well as a M.S. in Education (1981) from Indiana University, and a B.A. (1979) from the University of Kentucky. Kris and her husband, Perry, live in the Lexington area. They have four adult children and three grandchildren.
Relevant Links:
Lexington Theological Seminary: https://lextheo.edu/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kristen.p.bentley
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristen-bentley-20a60b65/
Chalice Press: https://chalicepress.com/products/bivocational-ministry-field-notes-for-congregations-and-ministers?_pos=2&_sid=0718b64df&_ss=r
Eric Hoke: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-wbbf2-1412bed
Jeffrey MacDonald: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-vu5iw-126b98d
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
Tuesday Mar 25, 2025
Tuesday Mar 25, 2025
In this powerful and deeply personal conversation, Martha Tatarnic talks with Kyle Norman about his latest book, Alive, Loved, and Free, which explores what it means to hold on to faith in the face of spiritual discouragement, suffering, and doubt. Drawing from his own experience as a priest and caregiver during his wife’s cancer treatment, Kyle shares how this painful journey reshaped his understanding of ministry, prayer, and God’s presence. Together, they discuss Kyle’s journey in ministry and his role as Dean in the Anglican Church of Canada, the power of the Daily Office and morning prayer, and the spiritual pitfalls many Christians face—feelings of unworthiness, struggling to pray, and wrestling with belief. The conversation explores the silence of God in suffering and the presence that often meets us instead, how church leaders can model honest vulnerability, and why doubt is not a disqualifier for faith. Kyle offers practical insights on forgiveness, feeling God’s love, and navigating big spiritual questions, while also sharing his hopes for the future of vibrant, small, and grace-filled Christian communities.
Reverend Kyle Norman is a priest, author, and speaker. Kyle holds Bachelor’s degree in Philosophy, a Masters in Divinity, and a Doctorate in Spiritual Formation. He currently live in Kamloops British Columbia with his wife and son. Currently, Kyle is the Rector of St. Paul’s Cathedral and Dean of the Territory of the People. Kyle is also the Author of “Alive, Loved, & Free: Finding Jesus when Faith is Hard” which tackles the tricky issue of feeling discouraged in our faith.
Relevant Links
Website: www.revkylenorman.ca
Facebook: facebook.com/ReverendKyleNorman
Instagram @reverend.kyle.norman
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant