Future Christian

Future Focused Church with Raymond Chang

In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Raymond Chang—pastor, writer, and Executive Director of the TENx10 Collaboration at Fuller Seminary. As co-author of Future Focused Church, Raymond shares a hopeful, grounded vision for how churches can embrace change, cultivate culture, and lead the next generation with clarity and purpose. Drawing from his experience in campus ministry, global missions, and as the president of the Asian American Christian Collaborative, Raymond offers practical wisdom on how to engage young people, make faithful decisions, and ground all change efforts in deep discipleship. The conversation touches on everything from listening well to those who resist, to why the worship service is often the worst place to initiate change.

Key Themes:

• Why the future of the church is still bright

• Spiritual postures vs. spiritual practices

• The long, faithful work of building congregational imagination

• Creating culture change, not just cosmetic change

• Empowering transformation teams

• Leading with listening and honoring those who resist

• Why everything should be grounded in discipleship

• How to manage hard decisions with grace

• The danger of political syncretism in the church

 

Raymond Chang is the executive director of the TENx10 Collaboration (part of Fuller Seminary), which is a collaborative movement that is geared toward reaching ten million young people over ten years with the gospel. He is also the president of the Asian American Christian Collaborative, a pastor, and a writer. Prior to his role at Fuller, Raymond served as the associate chaplain for discipleship at Wheaton College. He has worked in the for-profit and nonprofit sectors and served in the Peace Corps in Panama. He and his wife, Jessica Min Chang, are proud parents of Sophia, and they reside in Chicago.

 

Mentioned Resources:

📱 Follow @raychang502 

📖 Book: FutureFocusedChurch.com

🌐 TENx10.org: https://www.tenx10.org/

🌐 Asian American Christian Collaboration: https://asianamericanchristiancollaborative.com/

🎧 Jeff Keuss: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-8wu23-1703189

 

 

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Leading with Grace: Suzanne Nadell on Navigating Faith, Media & Polarization

How can the church learn from the newsroom? In this episode, Loren welcomes veteran journalist and media executive Suzanne Nadell to explore what faith leaders can gain from the world of communications. Drawing from her decades of experience in newsrooms across the country, Suzanne reflects on her own faith journey as a preacher’s kid, the challenge of navigating polarization, and how churches can better engage their communities by leading with grace, truth, and thoughtful storytelling. Suzanne shares lessons from her book Wired to Lead, discusses the importance of creating inclusive tables in church spaces, and reveals how spiritual practices like Sabbath and attentiveness to the Holy Spirit have shaped her in both professional and personal life. Whether you're a pastor, lay leader, or simply curious about the overlap between faith and media, this episode offers rich insights on leading well in divided times.

Topics Covered:

• Suzanne’s faith story as a preacher’s kid who found her own faith in adulthood

• Lessons from the newsroom that church leaders should embrace

• Why churches must get out of their cultural bubbles

• Communicating hard truths with kindness

• How Sabbath is an act of trust in God

• Building healthier boundaries in a 24/7 world

• Tips for better communication and storytelling in church

• Why Suzanne finds inspiration in Priscilla and other overlooked women in scripture

• Her hope for a less politically divided and more community-rooted church

Mentioned Resources:

📖 Her book: Wired to Lead

🌐 Suzanne's Website: https://suzannenadell.com/

🌐 She Leads Church: https://www.sheleadschurch.com/

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Renewing Christian Institutions: John Hawthorne on Fearless Leadership in a Changing Culture

What if Christian colleges—and churches—stopped being driven by fear?

In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Loren sits down (literally, in person) with sociologist and Substack writer John Hawthorne to talk about his new book The Fearless Christian University. Drawing on nearly four decades in Christian higher education, John outlines why so many institutions have slipped into what Andy Crouch calls "zombie mode"—defined more by inertia than imagination. This conversation moves fluidly between Christian universities and local churches, asking critical questions about sustainability, fear-based culture wars, institutional loyalty, and what it looks like to center the real questions of a rising generation.

Together, John and Loren explore:

• Why Christian institutions often default to fear and control

• What it means to be a “zombie institution”—and how to wake up

• How schools and churches can move from protecting tradition to cultivating belonging

• The importance of legitimizing doubt and centering student (or congregant) questions

• Whether it's possible to hold onto theological identity without gatekeeping

• How online church and online education can erode or support community

• Why belonging may need to come before belief

John Hawthorne is a sociologist who spent nearly four decades in Christian higher education. He served as faculty member and academic administrator over the course of his career, spending time in five different Christian universities. He writes a Substack that often deals with issues in Christian higher education and has been regularly interviewed for Christianity Today, Religion News Service, Sojourners, Inside Higher Ed, and the Associated Press. His publications include A First Step into a Much Larger World: The Christian University and Beyond.

 

Mentioned Resources:

📱 Follow https://bsky.app/profile/jwhawthorne.bsky.social

📖 Book: https://www.eerdmans.com/9780802884565/the-fearless-christian-university/

🌐 John's Substack: https://substack.com/@johnhawthorne

🎧 Jeff Keuss: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-8wu23-1703189

 

 

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Money, Mission, and Ministry: Grace Pomroy on Church Sustainability

Can your church pay the bills and follow God’s call with integrity? In this episode, Loren talks with stewardship educator and sustainability strategist Grace Duddy Pomroy about how churches can embrace bold, faithful financial models without compromising their mission. Grace offers insights drawn from her national research and latest book on reimagining how churches fund ministry—from sliding-scale rentals to community-rooted partnerships.

Topics Explored:

• Why your mission must come before your money
• The spiritual practices that sustain long-term financial change
• How to rethink rent, real costs, and what generosity really looks like
• Why churches need to grieve the past to make room for the future
• A six-part “rocket ship” model for launching sustainable ideas
• The myth of quick fixes—and the value of faithful experimentation

 

Grace Duddy Pomroy is the Director of the Stewardship Leaders Program at Luther Seminary. She’s a lay, millennial stewardship leader, speaker, and financial educator based in Allyn, WA. She is the co-author of the stewardship book, Embracing Stewardship: How to Put Stewardship at the Heart of Your Congregation’s Life, as well as author of the free 2013 ELCA stewardship resource, “Stewards of God’s Love.” Her latest book, Funding Forward: A Pathway to More Sustainable Models for Ministry, was just released September 2024. Grace is also a consultant with Relèven, a charitable organization that lovingly preserves, restores, and repurposes under-utilized churches into community hubs and affordable housing.

 

Mentioned Resources:

📱 Follow https://www.instagram.com/gracepomroy/ on Instagram

📖 Book: https://www.fortresspress.com/store/product/9781506493336/Funding-Forward 

🌐 Funding Forward: https://faithlead.org/funding-forward 

🌐 Releven: https://releven.org/

🎧 Mark Elsdon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/eldson/

🎧 Mark Elsdon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/mark-elsdon-on-why-we-arent-broke/

🎧 Jessica Dominguez: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/jessica-dominguez-on-mobilizing-churches-for-affordable-housing/

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

 

 

From Resurrection to Real Estate: John Cleghorn on Church Land for Community Good

What if your church property wasn’t a burden—but a blessing to your neighbors? In this episode, Loren talks with John Cleghorn about the growing movement of churches reimagining their buildings and land to address the affordable housing crisis. Drawing from firsthand experience and national trends, John explores how faith communities can embrace a new missional identity rooted in service, hospitality, and justice. Whether you’re a pastor, denominational leader, or simply wondering what’s next for the American church, this conversation offers both challenge and hope.

This episode includes:

• How churches are transforming unused space into affordable housing
• The pastoral challenge of helping congregations grieve old models while embracing new vision
• Why engaging neighbors is essential before development
• The tension between mission and monetization
• What it means to be a church after Christendom—and why that might be good news

 

John Cleghorn became pastor of Caldwell Presbyterian in 2008 after 25 years in banking and journalism. He has served Caldwell as it rebounded from almost closing to become a vibrant, diverse, mission-driven congregation centered on the love and justice of Jesus Christ. His latest book, Building Belonging: The Church’s Call to Create Community and House Our Neighbors, springs from his congregation’s experience and his national research into the emerging movement of faith-based organizations building affordable housing on their property. Building Belonging blends theology and Bible study with case studies and lessons learned From the movement.  A native of Atlanta, he has lived in Charlotte since 1986 and has served on a wide array of non-profit agency boards in the religious and human services fields at the local and national levels. He is currently a board member of WFAE.  He is married to Kelly, a kindergarten teacher, and has two adult children. He holds a Doctorate in Ministry from Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, a Master of Divinity from Union Presbyterian Seminary and a Bachelor of Arts from Washington and Lee University. His first book, Resurrecting Church: Where Justice and Diversity Meet Radical Welcome and Healing Hope (Fortress Press), came out in 2020. 

 

Mentioned Resources:

📖 Book: https://www.wjkbooks.com/Products/0664268501/building-belonging.aspx

🌐 Caldwell Presbyterian: https://www.caldwellpresby.org/

🎧 Mark Elsdon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/eldson/

🎧 Mark Elsdon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/mark-elsdon-on-why-we-arent-broke/

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

 

Healthy Calling: Arianna Molloy on Burnout, Purpose, and Redefining Work

What if burnout isn’t the end of your calling—but an invitation to reimagine it? In this episode, Loren talks with Dr. Arianna Molloy, author of Healthy Calling: From Toxic Burnout to Sustainable Work, about how our deepest exhaustion can reveal what matters most. Drawing from her own journey and years of research, Arianna offers insight for leaders, pastors, and anyone navigating seasons of vocational confusion, overwork, or transition. together, they explore how calling can be both sacred and slippery, why shame is often tied to burnout, and how to reclaim your purpose without clinging to a title. 

 

This episode includes:

• The difference between a healthy calling and toxic burnout

• Why our job titles aren’t our true identity

• What to do when you feel vocationally lost

• How rest and reflection help realign our sense of purpose

• Tools for reframing shame and rediscovering joy in your work

 

Arianna Molloy (PhD, University of Denver) is associate professor of organizational communication at Biola University. Her research focuses on meaningful work, work as a calling, and the connection between humility and burnout in the workplace. She is an award-winning scholar and educator who has published in the International Journal of Business Communication, Communication Studies, and Christianity Today. Arianna is also a consultant for organizations, business professionals, and ministries. Arianna and her husband, Allen, have one son and enjoy running half marathons, traveling the world, and drinking good coffee.

 

Mentioned Resources:

📱 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arianna-molloy-ph-d-168969246/

🌐 Arianna's website: ariannamolloy.com.

🎧 Past episode: Pastoral Health Roundtable Episode

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

TikTok Pastor: Bethany Peerbolte is Reimagining Church Online

What happens when your most meaningful ministry happens through a smartphone screen?  In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes Rev. Bethany Peerbolte—a self-described “TikTok Pastor” and the founding leader of Our Tapestry, a fully digital church community. With over 280,000 followers online, Bethany creates content that helps people declutter harmful theology, reimagine faith, and reconnect with a God of radical love—especially in places she calls “theological deserts.” She shares how a few youth group questions during the pandemic launched her into full-time digital ministry, why she prefers “decluttering” over “deconstruction,” and how online spaces can offer real spiritual care and community. From spiritual practices to algorithms, from internet trolls to worship on Discord, Bethany reveals the joys and challenges of doing church in a platform-driven world.

 

Topics Covered:

• How TikTok launched a movement of digital pastoral care

• What “decluttering faith” looks like in practice

• The role of dreams, labyrinths, and curiosity in spiritual growth

• Navigating social media algorithms and resisting rage-bait

• The promise and peril of building sacred spaces online

• Why progressive Christians need to speak louder online

Rev. Bethany Peerbolte is the founding pastor of Our Tapestry. This community meets entirely in digital spaces and gathers to declutter faith from abusive theology. She also creates Christian content on TikTok seeking to meet younger generations where they scroll. The stories Rev. Bethany hears from her 286,000+ followers about how churches have treated them inspires her ministry. “The zip code someone lives in should not decide what kind of God they know. Everyone deserves access to the radical love of God.” You can follow @RevBethany on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube and learn more at OurTapestry.Online. 

 

Mentioned Resources:

📱 Follow @RevBethany on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube

🌐 Learn more or join the community at rev-bethany.com

🎧 Past episode: Ted Smith:

🎧 Past episode: Elesha Coffman:

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

 

 

 

Clint Schnekloth on Why Progressive Churches Matter

Is progressive Christianity losing its soul by abandoning church, worship, and leadership? In this episode, Loren talks with Pastor Clint Schneckloth to explore why faith communities, worship, and theological grounding still matter in progressive spaces. Clint pushes back against the tendency to dismiss church as irrelevant or harmful, offering a vision for how ethical leadership, communal worship, and rooted faith can empower justice work rather than distract from it. He also introduces place-sharing as a model for mission and evangelism, showing how churches can engage their neighbors without compromising progressive values—or their faith commitments.

In this episode, you'll hear:

• Why Clint wrote about Progressive Church instead of Progressive Christianity
• How worship fuels justice, rather than distracting from it
• The danger of abandoning theological foundations for the sake of inclusivity
• Reclaiming leadership: Ethical authority in progressive communities
• Place-sharing: A relational approach to mission and evangelism

 

Clint Schnekloth is pastor of Good Shepherd Lutheran Church in Fayetteville, Arkansas, a progressive church in the South. He is the founder of Canopy NWA (a refugee resettlement agency) and Queer Camp, and is the author of A Guidebook to Progressive Church. He blogs as Lutheran Confessions at Substack.

 

Mentioned Resources:

📚 A Guidebook to Progressive Church by Clint Schneckloth 
✍️ Follow on Substack: Lutheran Confessions https://clintschnekloth.substack.com/
🌐 Good Shepherd Lutheran Church: https://www.goodshepherdnwa.org/staff/
🏳️‍🌈 Canopy NWA & Queer Camp: http://www.canopynwa.org/welcome
🍲 Mutual Aid Partner: Food Not Bombs https://foodnotbombs.net/new_site/

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

 

Martha & Loren Talk Christian Leadership Across the US-Canada border

In this episode of the Future Christian podcast, hosts Martha and Loren engage in a personal check-in, discussing Loren's vocational transitions and the challenges of navigating ministry outside traditional roles. They then delve into the current state of Canada-US relations, exploring the emotional and economic implications of a perceived trade war. The conversation highlights the cultural identity of Canadians and the growing sense of national pride amidst external pressures, emphasizing the importance of recognizing diverse forms of ministry and leadership in a changing landscape. In this conversation, Martha and Loren explore the role of progressive Christianity in addressing contemporary political issues, the importance of empathy and mercy in sermons, and the challenges of navigating political sensitivities within congregations. They discuss the significance of music in fostering community and healing, the need for courage in leadership, and the importance of finding common ground across political divides. The conversation concludes with personal reflections on coping strategies and a shared prayer for unity and guidance.

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

The Church as a Healing Community with Susan Ward Diamond

What does it mean to be the church in anxious, divided times? Recorded in connection with the 2025 Remind & Renew Conference at Phillips Seminary, Loren Richmond Jr. sits down with Rev. Dr. Susan Diamond to explore how local congregations can become spaces of healing, clarity, and radical welcome. Drawing from her work with moral injury, healing circles, and the Soul Repair After Moral Injury podcast (co-hosted with Dr. Rita Nakashima Brock), Susan shares how churches can recover the spiritual practices that root us in love, courage, and compassion. From forming faith through daily practices to fostering political and theological diversity under a shared mission, she offers a powerful testimony of what it means to be the church for this moment.

In this episode, you'll hear:

• What moral injury is and how it shows up in church, healthcare, and society

• How healing circles are transforming congregations from the inside out

• Why forming faith is essential before welcoming or serving others

• How to foster unity across political differences through mission clarity

• The role of spiritual direction and communal lament in healing

• A hopeful vision for the future of Christianity and leadership

Rev. Dr. Susan Ward Diamond is the Lead Pastor of Florence Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in Florence, Kentucky, where she has served since 2015.  Susan received her Bachelor of Arts degree from Texas Christian University, a Master of Divinity degree from Brite Divinity School, and a Doctor of Ministry degree from United Theological Seminary in Dayton, Ohio. Dr. Diamond has invested herself in ministry and mission through local, regional and general expressions of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in the United States and Canada, throughout her 33 years of ordained ministry.  She has served on the regional boards of the Florida and Alabama-Northwest Florida regions, directed numerous youth camps and conferences, and served as a keynote speaker of retreats and assemblies around the country.  She has served her denomination as First Vice Moderator for the 2011-2013 biennium of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in the United States and Canada. During her sabbatical in 2021, Dr. Diamond and Dr. Rita Nakashima Brock collaborated on a pastoral study grant funded by the Louisville Institute entitled Moral Injury: A Catalyst for Reform.  Following the study period, they have continued their work together to offer strategies to faith communities for providing support and healing for those suffering from moral distress and moral injury.  They have recently launched the podcast Soul Repair: After Moral Injury.  Susan and Rita are currently writing a book which they hope to publish soon.

Mentioned Resources:

🎙️ Rita Nakashima Brock's episode on Future Christian: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-vjamb-1871d36
🎙️ Soul Repair After Moral Injury Podcast (on all major platforms)
🌐 Florence Christian Church: florencechristian.org
📚 Coming Soon: A book on moral injury in the church (by Susan Diamond & Rita Nakashima Brock)

 

Presenting Sponsor:

Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world. 

Supporting Sponsors:

Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!

Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.

 

Future Christian Team:

Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer

Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host

Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer

Dennis Sanders – Producer

Alexander Lang - Production Assistant